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Last-modified: 12.5.00
ASH FAQ part 2/4: Subculture
This article is part 2 of the alt.suicide.holiday FAQ, co-authored by Meredith, Ramble and EverDawn. Other parts can be found at .
Introduction
Ash culture is a fluctuating thing. Like any Usenet newsgroup it varies from week to week and with who is participating at any one time. Furthermore, it is many things to many people.
A document trying to describe the ash subculture cannot avoid generalizations. Indeed, we do not claim it is accurate. However we hope this document may prove to be useful, especially for newcomers to ash, to obtain an initial idea of how ashers think, feel, talk and behave.
Note that at any given time, any forum related to ash may have non ashers participating in the discussion. This article talks only about ashers.
Contents
Ashers do not think suicide is immoral, irrational, or selfish. For further information about our views on these topics please read the "ash FAQ - Suicide The Debate".
A newcomer to ash may think that since most of society believes that suicide is bad, and we disagree with society, then it must be that we believe that suicide is good. But this is not the case.
In most societies, the common belief is that suicide is bad in general. The ash subculture believes that suicide may be a good option at least for some people. Therefore, the faq "is suicide good or bad" is misleading, since for each individual the answer may be different.
However, in contrast with the dominant culture, we do not presume to know what the answer is for each person. This is one of the reasons why we are pro-choice.
It is important to distinguish between a legal right and a moral right. Depending on the laws of your country, suicide may or may not be a legal right. But the question of the legality of suicide is not of much interest to ashers.
As for whether suicide is a moral right, we think it is. This is our main disagreement with society.
The common opinion on ash is that suicide should be a right for all, with the exception of children, and adults who are not responsible for themselves. However, there are may variations and divergence from this view.
In one extreme, some believe that children should have this right as well. However, there is usually some age below which they agree that suicide should not be a right. It seems that the real issue here is disagreement about the definition of a child/adult. It is obvious that current definitions which uses arbitrary age limits are inaccurate, however they are easy to use and clearcut.
On the other side of the spectrum, some believe that the right to suicide is superseded in the case of other existing moral or legal obligations, such as having young children which require care, or even having pending financial obligations.
2) How ashers react to various situations
2.1) When newcomers arrive, or oldtimers return
Sometimes someone who posted a farewell message returns later to inform us s/he failed the attempt. Or decided not to go through with it at the last moment. Other people leave ash because they want to go on with their lives without the presence of ash, to return later because they found out they still needed ash in their lives.
Those that remained behind on ash sometimes experience opposite emotions about these returns. Whenever you know somebody is in pain and really wants to die, one feels saddened for that person if it did not work out the way it was supposed to. At the same time, a lot of ashers feel ashamed for being glad that this person is back. Glad because of their presence, ashamed because we basically get something positive out of this persons misery.
These opposing emotions are the origin of the customary ash welcome: "Welcome to ash, sorry you're here."
Our true wish is that ash would be empty, but not because the former readers would have committed suicide. We wish that all ashers find happiness and contentment, however we know this is not always possible. Due to our altruistic desire for ashers to have better lives, some ashers find it difficult to admit that they are selfishly happy when someone returns to ash. However, ashers understand this conflict - nobody has every been offended by being welcomed back.
2.2) When an asher commits suicide
Whenever an account of suicide by an asher reaches the group, those staying behind deal with their own emotions. We understand that suicide was probably the best option available to this person. We respect this decision, we are glad that they have finally managed to escape their pain.
At the same time we are often saddened. After all, this is a person we have come to know, often even come to like. Because of their presence, they added something to our lives. A nice remark, an insightful post, a good joke, everybody has something to add to our subculture. And because they added some extra flavor to our lives, they made our lives just a bit more bearable. Because of this, we feel sad to see one of us leave.
2.3) When an asher who attempted suicide returns to ash
Ashers understand the difficulties of committing suicide, and are sympathetic of people who have attempted.
Some ashers who have attempted suicide, feared they might be ridiculed for their unsuccessful attempts. Many feel ashamed having failed in death on top of their perceived failure in life and were afraid to return to the group.
However, it is precisely at such times where ash can help most. As alienation from family and friends can increase after a suicide attempt, ash may be the best outlet to talk things over. On top of this discussion about unsuccessful attempts is usually of great interest to other ashers as it provides information on what does and does not work.
2.4) Why didn't I get a reply?
When someone makes a post, sometimes there are no followup posts and the reasons for this vary:
- Sometimes it's not entirely clear that the poster wants a reply. If you want replies, say so.
- Ashers are mostly depressed and may not have the energy to reply.
- Often, people just don't know what to say.
- Distractions on the newsgroup (e.g. , a flamewar).
- Keep in mind that this is Usenet and your post may not have even reached all of the news servers.
The main thing is to not take no replies (especially to a first post) personally. If you don't get a response and want one then it's OK to ask (nicely) again.
The key to understanding our relationship with other groups is the concept of social control. Social control includes any process or mechanism which is designed to achieve conformity. The goal of social control is to ensure that members of society behave appropriately [1].
Involuntary treatment is a form of formal social control which ashers might have to deal with. In this case some formal institution or authority attempts to force conformity.
Informal social control, on the other hand, is much more common. It takes place during normal, everyday interaction in the form of negative responses. An example of informal social control on ash is posters who try to persuade ashers that suicide is immoral.
In this section we describe how ashers relate to other groups either online or in real life. Groups who tend to apply more social control on ashers are usually those who are disliked the most. The section is roughly organized such that groups which appear later apply increasing degrees of social control to ash and ashers.
3.1) Friends of people who committed suicide
As long as they acknowledge our values and do not try to "help" us, there are tolerated.
In fact, participation of such people in our discussions can help both sides. They can gain better understanding of suicidal people and learn to accept the suicide as a valid option. In turn, ashers can learn what pain suicide leaves on those left behind, and although such pain is not an overriding reason to denounce suicide, it is a factor which can be taken into account if so desired.
The existence of ash and alt.support.depression (asd) is proof to how differently people can express suffering and pain. Though each group's membership consists of people who are in enough emotional pain that they are considering ending their lives, the environment of each group is vastly different and in a way they are almost opposites. In ash, people can make choices about what they wish to do with their lives (be it change it, continue it, or end it.) Asd is more of a traditional suicide support group whose goal is to help its members find reasons to continue their lives and to find solutions to the problems they face. Both try to offer a safe supportive environment for their members. Since both are unmoderated Usenet newsgroups the success of this varies.
Ashers are happy to give their experience when asked, but you have to ask. Asd assumes that you want to feel better and that you desire their advice, opinions, support and e-hugs (which they express by putting your name inside of brackets {{{{{name}}}}}}, something you should not do on ash.)
On ash, you are perfectly free post "I want to die" and generally no one is going be say "No, you don't." More likely, the replies will be along the lines of "Yes, I feel that way too and it's hell." On the other hand, posting the same thing on asd will often get replies like "Yes, you may feel that way now, but the feeling will pass, and in some time period it will feel different." Asd assumes that you want to be talked out of suicidal tendencies, ash does not.
Given that the two groups are so fundamentally different, please never crosspost between the two, no matter how appropriate it may seem. Instead, ask both groups separately and you will get some very different and potentially useful opinions from both. Crossposting usually causes horrible flame wars and your question will go unanswered. The members of each group often do not really understand the mindset of the other, so a flame war between the two can cause serious psychological damage (which can be quite dangerous). These groups are sometimes the only support that some of the participants have and when that support is disrupted by a flame war, then some folks may choose to take their lives sooner than they would have if that support had been there. This may sound trite, but this is not a game we're all playing. Agree with it or not, some people do live and die by these groups and it's important to respect that.
A note to ashers. Some ashers dislike and ridicule online forums like asd, that provide a more traditional forms of support, as useless and requiring insincere displays of affection. This view is quite subjective. The support on asd suits those who read it, and not ashers. In fact the number of participants in asd substantially outnumbers those in ash. In short, don't put asd down. Many people find it useful.
3.3) Psychologists and psychiatrists
Our relation with mental health professionals is ambivalent at best. They may be helpful in many cases. However, there are also some serious problems.
Psychologists and psychiatrists are not magicians. They cannot solve all problems. Furthermore, like any profession, some of them are good and some are not. Many ashers have had bad experiences from traditional therapy - long yet unhelpful treatment, long lasting side affects from psychiatric drugs or being put into a mental institution against one's will. However, the reason for these experiences may be just that their particular doctors were lacking.
The real problems are more fundamental. The mental health establishment and us have different value systems that are difficult to reconcile. Our differences are simply a reflection of our disagreement with society in general. A society which does not acknowledge the right to commit suicide.
Mental health establishments attitudes are based on current laws/government, which, in turn, are reflections of the current society's values. To be licensed as a therapist you have to agree to uphold a code of conduct. Furthermore, mental health practitioners belong to a professional association and are obligated to adhere to a code of ethics as a condition of membership. The code is a statement of standards of conduct towards clients and others. In most cases, the law sets only minimum standards of conduct. Ethics demands more. This is especially true in regard to suicidal individuals.
The attitude of mental health practitioners in your area depends largely on the legislation in you country and the codes of ethics of the professional associations with which they are affiliated. But most of all it depends on the individual beliefs of values of the therapist.
From the point of view of ashers, mental health practitioners are agents of social control. This does not that there are not some therapists who are understanding and may acknowledge the right to suicide in some cases, but legal and ethical codes make finding such therapists a difficult task.
The use of psychology as a device for social control is not new - runaway slaves and homosexuality in America, masturbation in England and political dissidence in the Soviet Union have all been classified as mental illness in the past, and thus exposed to enforce treatment[1]. Such treatment can be as coercive as any other form of social control.
For therapy to succeed the doctor and patient must establish a relationship of trust. This allows the patient to be open and discuss anything which may help in the process of therapy. The patient trusts the doctor to do everything possible for the patient's best interest. However, ashers face serious obstacles in establishing trust with their doctors.
Ashers consider suicide to be a valid option. The mental health establishment rejects this. Note that an essential prerequisite for making a rational decision is that all reasonable options be taken into account. Therefore, from an asher's point of view, just by entering the mental health system, the asher compromises his ability to exercise a rational decision process.
To exemplify this, consider the following scenario: after many years of treatment, the doctor of an asher concludes that the situation is hopeless - there is nothing the doctor can do to help the asher out of depression. The asher could have used this information to make a rational choice: if life in the current situation is unbearable then suicide may be considered, otherwise it may still be possible to continue on living despite depression.
But the doctor has reasons not to disclose this information. Many doctors simply accept the values of society - for them suicide is indeed unthinkable. However, even if the therapist realizes that suicide might be a reasonable option for a patient, there are external forces at work.
The suicide of a patient is considered in the eyes of relatives, other patients and professional peers, as a failure for the therapist. The cost to the doctor can range from a decline in stature and prestige, to law suits and disciplining acts within their professional association.
To prevent suicide, the therapist might prolong the treatment indefinitely, adopt different or more coercive forms of treatment, raise false hopes, or refer the patient to another professional. These options are not inherently bad. However, not addressing the possibility of suicide is a betrayal of the patient.
The patient trusts the doctor to do what is best for the patient. The problem is that they disagree on what the best thing is. A doctor denying the possibility of suicide is serving as an agent of social control. The doctor becomes part of the problem rather than the solution.
For these reasons there are voices on ash against the existing mental health establishment, but on the whole, ash is not against it. With all its problems we recognize that traditional therapy may be helpful to some people. If somebody believes they can benefit from such treatment then we would recommend trying it out. Keep in mind that you may likely need to talk to several therapists in order to find one that you feel comfortable with.
However, one must always remember the limitations of such therapy: if while in therapy you are to make a decision about whether to suicide or not, you will have to make this decision by yourself, without the therapist's assistance. Furthermore, to avoid involuntary hospitalization you might have to lie, claiming that although you are suicidal you have no intentions of acting upon this, or better yet deny that you are suicidal altogether. It is unfortunate that the delicate relationship between doctor and patient has to be underlined by deception.
3.4) Posters who are against suicide
Ashers are very protective of ash as it's a unique place. At the time of this writing there are over 35000 newsgroups, yet ash is the only one that is devoted to talking about suicide in a non-judgemental environment. People who deliberately disrupt ash are dealt with sometimes quite harshly, but this usually happens after the person has been gently told where to find the FAQ (or even been emailed it). They decide that their viewpoint is somehow important/unique (it isn't, we've heard it all before) that they should receive special status and post their anti-suicide opinion anyway. Then they have earned the title of troll.
There is a group of regular ash posters who are fiendishly good at having a good deal of fun at the troll's expense. Ashers protect the group because they do not want newcomers to misunderstand what ash is about.
A Pdoc is a shorter word for "psychiatrist" or "psycholgist".
A suicide is when a person has killed themselves. An attempted suicide is where a person has tried, and failed.
4.3) "catch/climb on/get on/board the bus".
The the bus phrase is a much loved ash metaphor for committing suicide. "Does anyone know if XXX caught the bus?" means "Does anyone know if XXX died (by suicide)?" The original idea was created by "just another onionhead" and can be found at http://ash.spaink.net/ashbus.html .
Ash itself is often described as a bus stop where several people have decided to stop and chat before deciding on whether or not to get on the bus. The image resonates with many ashers.
Shiny-happy people is an ash term that we shamelessly stole from the REM song of the same name. It refers to those who are not ashers yet want to cheer ashers up, however, they can not understand or sympathize with someone who is not happy. The most common characteristic is if they imply something like: "I'm happy and you should be to and here's how...", a message not appropriate for ash.
Calling them evangelists for happiness would not be far off the mark. Shiny-happies give those folks who have gone through bad times and are now OK or even happy (something that ash respects) an undeserved bad name.
An intrusive poster who willfully disregards the posting rules spelled out in the FAQ.
4.6) come out/come out of the closet
To come out in an ash context means to tell someone that you are suicidal. Some will also use the term when telling a person they know that they are depressed.
This is a play on {{hugs}} which is normally used in conventional support groups. The word "cuts" refers to some ashers tendency towards self harm.
[1] Society in transition: a humanist introduction to sociology, Rodney D. Elliott, Don H. Shamblin, Prentice-Hall 1992, p. 123
